Sunday Card Chat 8/2/2009 Two of Cups

Card Images

RWS: Val, Sufi, Mep, Charming

Thoth: Paul

Shining Tribe: Web

Romani: Disa

Druid Craft: Uruviel (Jimi)

Keyword or short meaning for the 2oC

Val: Partnership

mep: New relationship, soulmate, connections

Val: Cooperation

Val: "Like minds"

mep: good one, Val!

Val: :D

Web: STT: Adaptability RWS: Harmony

Disa: partnership for me, and a loving one at that

Disa: but hwat about that mythic?

Whirling_Sufi: Marriage

Val: Healing (RWS Caduceaus sp?))

Disa: opps that's "what"

Charming: Celebration

Uruviel: Like Disa, I think about partnership...of all the various kinds

mep: yes - healing, especially a healing relationship

Web: agree Uruviel

mep: In the Mythic, you really see the difference between the masculine and feminine energies that are being united in the Two of Cups, in general

mep: it's a little more subtle in other decks

Whirling_Sufi: Yes, Uruviel I see marriage as a loving partnership and it could also be marriage of the minds

mep: But yin-yang is also something I see in the 2 of C

Web: Hey Mib, are you Phyllis Mib or another Mib :)

Web: the yin & yang are really expressed in the STT (Shining Tribe Tarot)

mib_39zjxm: Hey Web! It's Phyllis Mib! lol

Uruviel: Exactly, Sufi...

mep: yes they are, Shari

Web: The Thoth as always made me feel like it's a wanna be 3 of Cups, it's lovely

Disa: hiya phyllis mib ;)

Whirling_Sufi: Hey, mib!

mib_39zjxm: Good Morning everyone!!! It's hot! hot! hot!

Charming: hi

mep: Yes, Web - like that lotus at the top (Thoth) is aspiring to become a cup!

Uruviel: Hi Phyllis :)

mib_39zjxm: Herr Bruegel's the MAN!!!

Web: Yep, and the flow seems to be from 1 - 2, which would make it a 2, but I always tend to see the top as one :)

mep: the WILD man!

mep: Yes, Web

Whirling_Sufi: Will the Angel in the Mythic release her?

Web: The Bruegel is funny (of course), puts the stein in the womens had and the wine glass in the mans

Disa: I think he has a cupid's arrow sufi

Whirling_Sufi: Or is he holding her captive to share their cups?

mep: LOL! Good catch, Web!

Web: Maybe Celeste will post her thoughts to the board. The Mythic is her deck of choice :)

Whirling_Sufi: Yes, Disa I did see that as well-but the card is perplexing

mep: Woman: "A stout for me and my friend here will have the Charonnay...."

Val: LOL mep

Web: lol

mib_39zjxm: Hey! Herr Bruegel doesn't mix up the sexes! All for one and one for all. lol

Web: The Romani's is very sweet

Whirling_Sufi: Yes, The Romani is so loving and tender

mep: Yes, for once I like a Romani version of the card! It emphasizes the purity of "new love."

Web: yes! Tender perfect word

Uruviel: The Mythic deck pic is from the myth of eros and psyche...

Web: of just love

Web: *or

Val: Oh, it is sweet. It just hit me that there are kids in the image instead of adults

mep: yes - love without agendas or guile...

Uruviel: She's on the rock in white (for her virginity) bound and awaiting death.

Web: they could be brother & sister

paul: To me the mythic is one of the most obvious allusions. It is Cupid coming to releasehis bride Psyche after his mother Aphrodite tie her up and stuck her on the island. Mama Aphrodite didn't like her son Cupid marrying a mere mortal.

mep: yep - or schoolmates.

mib_39zjxm: My Son drinks wine but only when he's in the kitchen wearing the Rhinestone Cowboy apron and crown! lol

mep: right, Paul.

mep: but the love she bore for Eros was pure - at least in the beginning.

Web: exactly, which plays in very well with the Lovers card

mep: Psyche, I mean, not Aphrodite

mep: LOL, Phyllis!

Uruviel: She's looking off and waiting for that monster to come...but Eros comes and has been assigned to kill her, but pricks his finger on his arrow, and so falls in love with the one he's been sent to kill.

Web: However this is a Two ;)

Web: LOL@Mib

mep: yes a two...we haven't yet reached the maturity (and the complexity) of the love that is in the Lovers (6)

Whirling_Sufi: Whee mib! Fun in the kitchen!

paul: Actually I think Aphrodite thinks she has a monopoly on the best way to love! And she doesn't wait around for no handfasting either!

mep: handfasting, schmandfasting....

Uruviel: I had to go grab my mythic book because,sad to say, I don't remember a lot of the mythology I learned in school.

mib_39zjxm: lol

Web: lol was just going to say that mep!

mep: LOL!

Whirling_Sufi: I have 2 copiesof the Mythic and have not looked at either-time I did!

mep: I've used the Mythic - it's uncanny how its imagery fits so many situations that come up in seekers' questions.

mep: I mean, considering that it only works with a handful of the vast array of myths!

paul: I like to use a mythic from parties, as I can usually keep my readings lite.

mep: I guess archetypes are archetypes, ey?

mep: good thought, Paul. Also, the stories are familiar to many

mep: makes it more accessible, less esoteric

Whirling_Sufi: I need a lite deck for August-hmmm!

Web: I had the Mythic for like 15 years and couldn't ever learn with it

Disa: the Fenestra looks like August to me, and fall

Web: all I could see was the myth, and never really connected it to real life, took the Spiral & RWS for my big bang.

mib_39zjxm: The Mythic image reminds me of the film When a Man Loves a Woman! He can't let her go no matter how bad it is being with her.

paul: does anyone want to give a try on how to explain the flying lion head in the RWS? And is the serpent entwined in staff really necessary and what does it mean in this case?

Web: Well Paul.. it's as necessary as the artist thought it was, and it can mean any number of things to the reader ;)

Web: I tend to see it as the Fire of passion

Web: and the healing between strife

mep: Well, Kliegman (Tarot and the Tree of Life) connects the lion's head to the couple as a symbol of fiery passion that has "erupted" between them. And Pollack (78 Degrees) says that the lion is sexuality and the wings, Spirit.

paul: Yeah well my ready associations are on the blink anybody want to help stoke my fire? That is my associative thinking

mep: Come on baby, stoke his fire....

Web: LOL!

mep: :D

Web: again mep!

Whirling_Sufi: Sandra Thomson says it symbolizes the whole person that each has the potential to becomeif they can grow in the relationship.

mep: GMTA, Shari!

Web: if this card comes up with a lot of fire cards, it can indicate a sexual relationship

mib_39zjxm: I don't know Paul. But with the evil expression in the Lion's eyes, might be those two cups are filled with hemlock! Love is sometimes like slow poisoning. Arsenic and Old Lace drama.

Whirling_Sufi: I always saw it as Stength in the relationship, but I am very open ! LOL

paul: What about the serpent entwined in staff? Is that some kind of discipline?

Web: if it's about people who are not getting along the caduceus of healing show the possibility of that

paul: Yes, arsenic and old lace

Whirling_Sufi: LOL, mib!

paul: thank you that's the word caduceus!

mib_39zjxm: He's reaching for her cup and might be trying to switch cups!

Val: Isn't the caduceus also a symbol of Mercury?

mep: Serpent / Staff (caduceus) is the healing aspects of a relationship

Web: yep I believe your right Val

mep: I think he's reaching for her hand, Phyllis - but then again, I'm a hopeless romantic!

Web: so communication can come into play as well

Whirling_Sufi: It may also be that we are all capable of healing one another or the self

Web: yes! Sufi

paul: I think it has more to do with the God of sleep, and his physician, as sleeping was one of the ways that ancient hospitals attempted to cure disease

Val: Yes, Web, I had that same thought

Web: and that any healthy relationship "should" heal versus hurt

mep: yes - Marcury / Hermes. Came into being when Hermes through his staff on the ground between two fighting snakes, ending their combat. HEALING their relationship,

mep: Mercury, NOT 'Marcury!' LOL!

Val: Ahhhh! I did not know that, mep!

mep: and threw, not "Through" - YIKES my typing!

mib_39zjxm: And to heal, create an immunity, don't you need a bit of the poison itself...A hair of the dog that bit you?

Web: your fingers are just trying to keep up with your brain ;)

paul: yet a little poison can be a good cure.

mep: well, that supposedly heals hangovers, Phyllis! HA! (like from too much stout and Chardonnay in the Bruegel!)

Whirling_Sufi: But , mib this card has such a sacred quality to it!

mib_39zjxm: lol Mep!

mep: LOL at web - impossible task for my arthritic fingers...at least my brain is still spinning, though!

Web: :D

Web: How do you see this card as a 2 in relation to the High Priestess? Or what other Major do you relate the card to numerically?

mib_39zjxm: Joan, isn't there a flip side to the sacred, like the Devil's Temptation?

paul: It seems we have a split between the wicked stepmother and the happily ever after crowd.

Whirling_Sufi: There can be, of course, I just don't feel it in the RWS or the Romani

mep: Well (bear with me, here), I see in the High Priestess the concept of POSSIBILITIES (what is behind that veil, anyhow???) And I also see that in this card...the possibilities of growth that can come from this new relationship.

paul: after all the number two is the first possibility of evil

Disa: hmm

mep: Yes, and it's also the first possibility of EXPANSION.

mep: which can lead to evil, or to great good

Web: For me it's the inner knowing. This card more then even the Lovers indicates love on a level beyond initial emotions. When you know you know. Whether is a lover or a friend. It's an instant connection.

Whirling_Sufi: I like that Mep!

Val: With HP as Keeper of Secrets, 2 Cups could indicate the sharing of secrets.

Disa: instant connection- that works for me web

paul: I think it is a connection that bodes towards growth and development at least in potential

Web: nice Val

mep: I like that this card is a symbol of EQUAL love...Kliegman points out that both the man and the woman (RWS) are wearing victory wreathes, and that they EACH have a cup of his/her own.

Val: :D

mib_39zjxm: I see that too Joan...Sometimes like me when I look for the dark underbelly, I usually find it...Kind of scary in a way.

Whirling_Sufi: Yes, Val, nice

paul: all the quicker to get drunk with

Val: lol Paul

mep: The main difference between them (other than the assumed anatomical ones!) is that the man (masculine energy) is in motion, while the woman (feminine energy) is standing still, receptive.

Web: Spiritually it's about love finding a way (imho)

paul: yes love always finds a way, it's just not necessarily my way

mep: Yes, Web - recognition of a soulmate

Whirling_Sufi: Indeed, Web-lovely!

Web: whether that is to bridge light & dark, male & female, holy & evil

mep: keeper of secrets vs sharing secrets - I like that, Val!

Val: :D

paul: do you really think that the two of cups means a soulmate?

Web: very nice Val, had to scroll as I was typing I missed what you had said

Web: soulmate as in larger world not soulmate as in perfect spouse

mep: Not the cups themselves, Paul. But the meeting of the two figures - and the cups (RWS) are almost being held up in a mutually respecting toast!

Disa: the instant connection could be the recognition of a soulmate, I can see that

mep: right, Web

mib_39zjxm: Somehow I see a connection to the knowledge of a forbidden love. Don't know why either. :s

mep: You've been reading too much Danielle Steele, Phyllis! LOL!

mep: or watching Lifetime movies....

mep: ;)

mib_39zjxm: Never read any of her stuff. Now I'll have to get me a dose of DS!

Web: karmic connection, past life connection, not in one and only "Soulmate"

Disa: cause, Phyllis sometimes the instant recognition IS forbidden-specially if yer already married

mep: right, Web.

Val: I think of an instant connection as recognizing a soul you you shared a past life with (if you're open to the concept of reincarnation)

Disa: right I get ya web

Whirling_Sufi: LOL, Disa!

mep: the recognition of much of ourselves in another

mep: I am, Val, and I agree!

Disa: oh yep I agree Val

paul: I think there may be some esoteric aspirations, as the caduceus intimates. The lion as a Leo means that this love for her shares in the full light of day, here secrets are shared and become a secrets no longer

Val: Like Web states: karmic connection

Web: agree Paul

mep: Good one, Paul

Whirling_Sufi: Very fine, Paul!

Disa: oh that's good- all out in the open

mep: For me, the fact that this is one of the "stage/separation" cards (RWS) means that this duo is kind of lost in a world of their own. They are very tunnel-visioned at this moment, seeing ONLY each other.

paul: that may be what the feeling you're cups might mean, the ecstasy of abandoning the reserve of our discrete lives and joining spiritually in that higher realm where there are no shadows.

mib_39zjxm: Interesting Paul. Under the scrutiny of light there are no secrets. That's no fun! lol

mep: in that atmosphere, the sharing of secrets is easy, because the rest of the world doesn't exist for them at this moment

Val: I read somewhere the lion representing the unborn soul waiting to enter the world thru the union of the couple

paul: Yes except the light itself holds a secrets in its full disclosure

paul: no escaping paradox here

Web: As a two, and in connection to the High Priestess is the spirit, intuition, and also contains the darkness, and for me it can therefore also indicate depression from a relationship, and the healing from that depression. The Mythic shows this imho

mep: Yes. Also the dangers of having just ONE other person be your WHOLE WORLD.

Web: Nice Val

mep: That is a definite form of isolation.

mep: that's kind of cool, Val.

paul: yes Web, I think that this is the beginning of the lifting of depression. And that might be what the card means here

mib_39zjxm: Does a shattering of Innocence become a necessary aspect and somehow fit into this scenario?

Whirling_Sufi: Interesting, Val and a possibility

Val: Oh yeah, I can definitely see a lifting of depression

mep: eventually, Phyllis...but I don't think it's happening quite yet in this card...not in RWS, at least

Disa: oh I don't know if they have to shatter their innocence just yet

paul: but let's consider some of the tasks of psyche, doesn't she need to separate the grain from the straw in the ant's come along and help her do it?

mep: This is the sublime (if fleeting) moment of PERFECTION.

Web: I think it would depend on your definition of innocence

Disa: yep I think that too mep

mib_39zjxm: A surrender of some kind...Independence, control, self-centeredness maybe?

paul: Innocence and perfection seem to go together

mep: too bad neither is very long-lived!

paul: Process and curiosity be the their opposite?

Whirling_Sufi: Yes, Mep-too bad!

Disa: hmm see I just think of it as the very beginning stages of the relationship- it's perfect ust now they can't see the imperfections yet

mep: right, Disa.

Whirling_Sufi: I agree, Disa!

paul: He had a problem with them ecstasy is out of cups, is the hangover the next day

Val: Yes, Disa, I often get that same feeling

mep: Kliegman says, "The Two of Cups is a card often associated with the BEGINNING of relationships, because as they develop it becomes clear that no one on this earth can be our PERFECT counterpart. That is our ideal, but it is not realizable…” in real life.

paul: beginnings often hold unrealistic hopes

mep: don't they just!

Web: I think the STT shows the necessary adjustment for any relationship

Val: Ah, so true, Paul!

paul: that doesn't mean they don't do what they need to do as far as the relationship goes

mep: how so, Shari? STT, I mean?

Web: not that it can't be a beginning, but I would tend to see also as the time of adaptation to the relationship

mib_39zjxm: Paul, this could be the dark underbelly of the unrealistic beginnings of "love."

mep: I like the image of the two streams joining in the larger body of water...

Web: the fish tail to the head so a acceptance to include a part of the other fish

Web: *show

mep: ahh - right

mep: wholeness, completeness.

Web: together they create a space of peace in calm

mep: head-to-toe devotion! LOL!

Web: for themselves

mep: yes

paul: Yes mib, I grok your hard take on love

Disa: haha

Web: peace in a sea of chaos

Disa: we grok from time to time ;)

Val: lol

mep: Also, a "closed circle," Shari - almost. Like they are shutting out others for the time being.

Whirling_Sufi: great word, grok!LOL

mep: GROK!

Web: yes it is closed yet they remain in the main body of water

paul: but consider Pisces connection in Thoth tarot, here that two of cups is definitely a celebration of some sort of comingling

Uruviel: Hi, Tuwikaa. :)

Web: Hi Tuwikaa!

mib_39zjxm: On the Secret image, she looks as if she

Disa: hiya tuwikaa

Whirling_Sufi: Hey, Tuwikaa

Val: Hello Tuwikaa!

mep: With the fish in the STT, there seems to be a Pisces connection there, too

mep: hi Tuwikaa!

Tuwikaa: Hi to all.....

Disa: I was thinking that too mep- STT pisces

mib_39zjxm: she's challenging him to capture her heart. Like Clint

Whirling_Sufi: Yes, Mep-I thought that too

mep: as if she what, Phyllis??? (Secret, I mean...)

mib_39zjxm: Eastwood asking to Make my day...

mep: oh - I'm slow in catching up!

mep: LOL, Phyllis!

paul: yet looks like she might be a vampire in the secret image, and the guy approaching is really a fly about to be sucked dry

Disa: haha is that a pisces trait? challenging them to capture us? :)

Disa: hey Jet

JetAluna: hey :)

Web: I think love has been a part of this card for a long time

Web: Hey Jet!

mep: well, I dunno - but have you ever tried to catch a fish with your bare hands? Slippery little suckers!

Whirling_Sufi: Yeah, paul-she does have that vamp look!

mib_39zjxm: lol Paul! Vampira

mep: Hi, Jet!

Disa: haha mep

Uruviel: Hi, Jet! :)

Whirling_Sufi: Hi, Jet!

Web: lol@Paul

Val: Hello Jet!

mep: wow! What a group we've got here - isn't this GREAT!?!?!

Charming: jet, hi

mep: how are our servers enjoying their new private circuit, Jet?

paul: in Robert Wang's the perfect tarot divination, he claims that the two of cups is adventure with its roots in the hanged man and the magician

mep: good grief, Paul...that seems like a bit of a stretch to me...

Web: From Tarot Wisdom: Element: Water, Sephirah: Hokhmah in Beriah, Pythagorean: Dyad, 10 deg. Cancer ruled by Venus. Any others? What does any of this add to your understanding of the card?

mep: :D

Val: Magician, I can see, Paul (Mercury), how does Hanged Man fit in?

Web: higher power of 2

Web: 12

Val: Ohhhhh!

Val: Thanks Web

mib_39zjxm: Kind of llike that Paul! Roots are always a mysterious cause so much of it happens underground in the dark. Like pressure turns coal into diamonds.

paul: according to Wang its Uranus in cancer

mep: Higher power of 2? 12? how so....(dimwit genes kicking in, here!)

Web: the 2 is to the higher because it's paired with the 1

mep: Sephirah: Chochma (Hokhmah) - wisdom. How can we know if we're wise, in isolation? Or does our wisdom only begin to be realized in relationships?

mib_39zjxm: Isn't Uranus that crazy guy with the wild look in his eyes who invites you out of the hum drum and into bizarre places? lol

Web: taking the numbers as they are and not adding them together

Web: 13=higher power of 3

Whirling_Sufi: Thanks Web and friends-gotta go-sorry-wonderful chat! Bye!

mep: okay...I think I get the 12 - 2 thingie...I need to ponder that a bit.

paul: anyone want to tell me what Hokhmah in Beriah means?

Web: (((Sufi))) Enjoy your Sunday!

Uruviel: LOL, Phyllis. :D

Val: See ya, Sufi (L)

mep: Buy, sufi!

Disa: I'm not getting it either mep

Uruviel: Bye,Sufi...have a great day! ;)

Uruviel: :)

Val: Have a lovely day!

Disa: bye sufi

Web: I can't really

Whirling_Sufi left the room (quit: "If you think nobody cares, try missing a few payments").

Val: Hokhmah in Beriah - no clue

Web: The wisdom to create is the 2

paul: EA got to be careful about those Uranus's never know what comes out of them or where they may lead you

Val: As in, I have no clue

paul: yes no clue sounds good

Web: going from 1 to 2 is creation of something

Web: I don't know nothing about the Sephirah, but that's what I get thinking about Wisdom in Creation :)

Web: doing so with wisdom brings you something more then you had or were

mep: Beriah is considered "Heaven" proper, the first separation from the Divine, and "location" of the Throne of God and archangels. Hochma is the sephira of Widsom.

Val: I see Creation more in 3. The 2 brings in another energy, perhaps needed before the creation can begin

mep: Wisdom

mep: Beriah is one of the "four worlds" of in Kabbalah, Tree of Life

Web: each piece beyond 1 is creations or could be

paul: that's some seriously heady stuff, I think it's time for me to crack open by Garrett Knight

paul: Gareth Knight

Val: lol Paul Same here

mep: So I would say we're looking at divine wisdom here...at least the aspiration to it.

mep: Just my guess!

Web: Venus in Cancer indicates a very sensitive, warm-hearted, protective, affectionate and deeply emotional romantic nature.

Web: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/venus-in-cancer.php

paul: yes I always knew that your spouse was the dweller on the threshold to being happy

mib_39zjxm: Is there reference being made to the Big Bang of Creation? Definitely acquiring Wisdom or making Friends with her creates a violence of some sort. Might be that Wisdom demands that shattering of Innocence.

mep: Yes, Web - that astrological association certainly fits this card, in my opinion...all the stuff mentioned earlier about the innocence of a new love, a new relationship

Val: Nurturing love (Tarot Awareness - Stephen Sterling)

mep: ooooh - Phyllis! How metaphysical of you, m'dear!

mib_39zjxm: :O

paul: I think the innocence and new love stuff goes back to the tale of psyche, tied up on the island by jealous Aphrodite

mep: yep

Web: Those born in the generation having Uranus in Cancer have the ability to receive intuitively from the planetary mind new emotional states that cause trauma or transformation on a very personal level.

mep: I feel a real sense of TENTATIVENESS in this card....as though this is, literally, a brief moment in time that has been captured in the imagery.

paul: that was some adventure so Wayne was right after all!

mep: But it will not be long-lived.

Web: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/uranus-in-cancer.php

Web: now the Uranus in Cancer fits nicely with the 2 in water with the High Priestess imho ;)

mep: yep

paul: Yes it brings out the innocence doesn't it. That in order to be wise you need a certain degree of innocence

Web: What do you feel the 2 of Cups could be asking you to release in your life?

mep: "Except ye become as little children..." and so forth

Charming: Attachment

mep: Release dependency.

Val: Or the fear of attachment

paul: I think the two of cups is telling you to dance while you can or eventually you'll get tired

Web: Let go the need to control to partner

mep: Right - come together as EQUALS

JetAluna: controlling the partner would be exhausting anyway...

mep: mutual respect.

mep: Respecting each others' space, too - notice that the couple aren't entwined in a hot embrace here, but each is pretty much holding his/her own ground

Uruviel: Release stubborn independence and allow a partnership to complete my efforts...maybe...if I have to...;)

mep: LOL, Jimi!

Web: What might be a shadow side of the 2oC?

mep: Because of the tentative vibes I get from this card, I think it's also telling you to release worrying about the past and the future, and to live in the present moment

Disa: haha Desperado comes to mind- you better let somebody love you before it's too late

mep: Yeah, Jimi - climb down from your fences!

Val: Shadow is where I see control issues

Uruviel: Becoming so involved with the one other person to the exclusion of others

mep: Shadow side? Expecting too much. Being too idealistic.

mep: Also, shutting out the world for the sake of just one other person...that's never a good thing to do.

Web: the desire for a relationship is overwhelming

JetAluna: placing expectations on the other

Web: too much emotional overflow

Val: Co-dependency

Web: nice one Val

Val: :D

mep: Another shadow aspect might be TOO much independence. Being afraid to come together with someone else.

mep: standing too much apart.

JetAluna: not letting someone "in"

mib_39zjxm: Paul, maintaining a sense of Innocence is in my opinion, is the means to keeping the emotional waters running clear and clean...It's the means to keeping Grace working in your favor on the human psyche on the mundane level. Without Innocence there's threat of losing the gift of Grace that no amount of seeking God's favor can give you more of or replace.

JetAluna: refusing to be vulnerable

mep: good one, Jet

paul: every dish too much baggage in these associations. After all you don't take the whole household on the honeymoon. You pack lightly because you need not wear that much

Web: nice!

Val: Yes, mep, "too much independence" - fear of commitment

Web: I agree Mib

paul: how does the two of cup means fear of commitment? Reverse to maybe

Web: lol@Paul

JetAluna: it's so tough to find a relationship though where there is an equal amount of emotion on both sides

Web: skivvies is good enough

Val: The Shadow, Paul - fear of commitment

JetAluna: its very common to have one person more invested than the other

Web: Shadow, reversal, dark side... ect

Web: Yes Jet very true

JetAluna: so how do we find that balance?

paul: but the flying lion heads is not a shadow image as an invitation to the heavens

mep: well, i can see that the couple (RWS) is standing apart, Paul, as thought they're a bit hesitant to come together, to "commit."

Disa: we don't find it, it finds us ;)

Web: no I see that as a positive

Disa: that's the divine intervention I think

Disa: or the cosmic force

mep: right, Disa - the connection to the Divine that has been created by the initial coming together of two souls

paul: and the Pisces images, as in the shining tribe, where the secret is the two fishes become one fish

Web: yes two become one versus 1 becoming 2

Disa: the potentioal to form the new "thing"

mep: and to fit better on the serving plate - ha!

Val: Ah! NOW I get the STT image

Web: returning to the initial the beginning the adam karendam (spelling wrong)

Disa: ;)

paul: we are in sponing moment

mep: bed of rice...a little chopped fresh parsley... a squeeze of lemon...

mep: (I think I'm getting hungry!)

Val: lol mep

Disa: yikes

Web: What do you think the card might be suggesting that you need to bring into your life?

mep: Partnership

Disa: balance, acceptance

mep: (1st thing that popped into my mind)

Val: Ditto mep

Val: Acceptance

paul: there is an alchemical transformation going on here, perhaps this is the fountain of eternal youth and transformation? Especially in the image of Thoth

Web: compromise on the emotional level

mep: a sense of connection (maintained with a respectful distance, of course)

mep: nice, Web

Charming: Unconditional Love

Web: connection to another takes a form of compromise

mep: live in the moment

paul: I think alchemy suggests more than compromise, and less you happen to be a Republican

Web: yes charming I think that is there as well

mep: LOL, Paul!

mib_39zjxm: Snaps and snails, curls in the middle of her horrid forehead and pound of linguine in clam sauce

Web: lol!

Val: LOL Paul

Web: lol@Mib

mep: Now I AM hungry, Phyllis!

Web: what!

paul: I think if we dine upon the fish in the fountain of eternal youth, we may be throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak

mep: Something which Bruegel does a lot...

Web: Pythagorean said it was the Dyad, otherness bringing others into your life

mep: wow - heavy

Disa: haha mep

mep: but how do we have "otherness" BEFORE others come into our life?

mep: Unless, of course, one has multiple personalities...

Web: well then you'd still be at 1

paul: Bruegel Tarot does suggest the dance more than the others do

Web: How might you use your card for a meditation or a focus card?

mep: But seriously, is self-awareness a form of otherness? (This is getting very, very deep...)

mep: I think I'll use it to meditate on what I am before "otherness." Or without "otherness."

mep: Seriously

paul: the dyad is the only even evil. I think odds were considered evil and basically unstable, and even numbers were considered civilized

mep: how odd

mep: ;)

Web: I could be Mep if you can perceive something outside yourself you have taken the 1st necessary step towards otherness

mep: yes

paul: we just got the conclusions not necessarily the reasoning

paul: and what kind of reasoning is there a dreams anyway?

mep: seems like "cheating" to me, Paul! LOL!

Web: I would use this card to help me to adapt, and become more inclusive of the ;) otherness

mep: After all, in math class we were always told to "show our work."

mep: Good one, Web...

paul: Yeah but paper was at a premium back them days

Web: to remind myself to find the center of peace within chaos

mep: LOL!

mep: That LOL was for Paul, not for you, Web - I like this meditation of yours...

paul: so they use to write on slates, little blackboards, with chock no doubt

Disa: I would use this card to be more in tune to the fat that two parts make one- and see the value of the other in addition to my own

Disa: oops the fact

mep: Yes, Disa

Val: Focus on accepting a mutual compromise

mep: LOL - I WISH that in "fat" two make one!

Web: lol!

Disa: yep me too mep

Web: Nice Disa

paul: I do hope that when you decide to get hitched Val it's more than a mutual compromise

mep: Yes, Val - meditate on how to find the win-win solution

Disa: sometimes I'm too cuahgt up in compromise that I don't see the indivduality

Uruviel: Currently, I could use it to meditate on how willingness to accept and care for another (actually several others) could bring healing <sigh>

Web: The idea of compromise is also leading me to the idea of letting go and letting be

mep: someone in particular, I take it, Jimi?

paul: I really think compromise is not the meaning of the two of cups

Web: the compromise might just be allowing the partner to be what they are and accepting them anyway

Uruviel: To think of my attitude and the shifts that need to be made in attitude and action.

mep: always wise, Web...

Uruviel: yes, mep, a certain situation

Disa: exactly web

mep: ah

mib_39zjxm: Realistically Love is sacrifice. Giving up a piece of the self for another or others. Then cycles back into letting go of those you love opening the opportunity to finding the Self again in a new way. Hard to explain in words. They keep getting in the way...lol

Web: yep I can see that Uruviel

Val: I agree, Paul, 'compromise' was the only word I could think of

mep: LOL, Phyllis! I see love as expansion, more than sacrifice. The two becoming something more than the sum of its parts.

paul: maybe another way of saying that, mib, is not that love is sacrifice, but suicide. Does the self have to dissolve for there to be room for the other?

mep: YIKES!

Web: yeah Mib sometime text chatting and even voice chatting can't get the thought or idea across

mep: If that's the case, Paul, then GET THEE BEHIND ME LOVE-SATAN!

Disa: yikes no way man

mep: Don't want NO PART OF YA!

Web: yikes is right mep!

Web: I think when that happens Paul it's an unhealthy relationship

paul: Again I really think that compromise is not the best meeting for the two of cups

Disa: self doesn't dissolve- you have to have something to bring to the table

mib_39zjxm: Thanks Paul...You said it much better than I. lol Sometimes religious dogma gets in the way, makes demands that human nature isn't equipped to handle.

paul: I think of it represents an alchemical transformation where each soul undergoes its own metamorphosis to its own needs, but it's own needs now includes the other in a way that makes the cells seem fuller and more fulfilled.

Web: a person should become more then themselves. themselves plus

Val: How 'bout this: Focus on accepting a mutual agreement - even if agreeing to disagree

mep: I agree with that, Paul. Not compromise....acceptance, growth, expansion. Something new and whole made from two "others."

Uruviel: Well, there's the rub for me in my circumstance...how to love and heal when the other one just wants control

mep: right, Web

Web: agree paul

Uruviel: And it's not a relationship I can escape.

Uruviel: At least not at present...

mep: it's all in your own attitude, Jimi. You don't have to CAVE, but you don't have to take control, yourself, either.

Web: well then Uruviel that brings in the release, letting go, and not being tied to their needs

mep: control of them, I mean

mep: right

mep: it is what it is. Acceptance is a form of love.

paul: Val that seems a little tepid, I think I like my bath water hotter, and maybe my relationships too!

mep: And my favorite quote: "Learning to shrug is the beginning of wisdom." (Sarah Ban Breathnach)

Val: lol Paul

Web: the deep breath and release

mep: Yes, but even the hottest bath water cools off eventually, Paul!

Web: nice mep

Disa: well paul I think of compromise meaning- each can still be who they are- doesn't have to mean it's tepid, but accepted by the other

Val: Yeah, it's still a tad weak. Can't seem to find the right words to express that focus

mep: yes, Disa - I agree

mib_39zjxm: Not if you keep the kettle whistling on the stovetop Mep! lol

mep: LOL!

paul: that's a great quote, I think I need to learn to shrug more during tarot readings, I've got the drooling down pretty good

JetAluna: it seems like we're assuming the bath water can only go from hot to cold

Web: finding a place in which to stand together doesn't mean our steps to that place are the same

mep: :D LOL @ Paul

Web: or that we have to follow the same path back

mep: OOOOH - Web - that was GREAT!

Val: Ooooo, I like that, Web

JetAluna: what if we had one of them new fangled tankless water heaters? ;)

Disa: or that we move at the same pace

Disa: newfangled ;)

Web: :)

Web: I want wanna them!

paul: no I'm perfectly capable of turning the faucet on

Tuwikaa: fulfill ~ satisfy each other

Web: yes

Uruviel: Well, I don't think it's *all* in my own attitude...the other person is into manipulation, power, and control...and I have to work with this person whether I like it or not...and she's pretty happy with her methods...but it's eating at me...

paul: I think this is the promise of fulfillment rather than its culmination

Web: well even with the new fangled you turn the tap on, you just don't keep heated water while it isn't necessary

Uruviel: So if the other isn't willing to 2oC with ya, does it do any good?

paul: after all it's only the two of cups not the 10

mep: I think one of the miracles of perfect, innocent love (even the Platonic kind) is that two who were essentially already complete in and of themselves come together in a brand NEW kind of completeness.

Web: it can do good for you Uruviel

mep: Jimi - you can only control your OWN cup.

Disa: exactly mep

mep: Promise of fulfillment, Paul....I like that

Uruviel: Even if she's still messin' with my cup?

Disa: don't let her mess with yer cup jimi

paul: I don't know about controlling your old cup but I certainly understand drinking from it

Web: you may not find the harmony of the 2oC, but you may be able to find some of the love/joy

mep: LOL! Well, I think you're justified in protecting your own cup!

Web: Next week is the 2 of Wands, don't forget if you want to switch decks pop me off an email webweaver@tarotforlife.com

Web: Great chat everyone!